Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd
Forum Replies Created
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Wonderful news, glad you are busy.
The first question must be as to what structural load the roof or substrate has been constructed to withstand.
I understand that you want to reduce the amount of pedestals, this sounds sensible, but the issue with only having a few pedestals is that you increase the point load about each pedestal. Yes the pedestal may be able to with stand 850 Kgs but you need to understand if the substrate or roof is also able to withstand this load too.
Longer spans are great and make for a rapid installation, in this case I would advise the use of an (IStructE) Structural Engineer to provide calc’s and sign off the job to cover you for future issues should there be any. This remove the guessing element and you then have something sensible which would then conform with CDM regulations (UK only).
Your second point about whether this may affect the performance of the decking… you may need to discuss this point with the manufacturer of the FRP, they may already may have data to cover your intended use…. if not I would suspect it best not to use this product.
I hope this helps
Karl
Ensure at least 2 days of dry weather, soaked in and completely dry before use.
Do use Prep Deck to strip and then neutralise with Net Trol, allow to dry before oiling… this will provide the best results and allow the oil to fully penetrate the timber. Without the oil may form a film on the surface which is not desirable.
It wouldn’t be a show for selling, more of regulations, fixing techniques, showcasing projects and raising standards
Alex Collins said:
Decking expo? Maybe, although we don’t tend to do shows, we use a different routes to market at present and they’re working well for us.
I have this every day of the week, this conversation usually has “whats your cheapest” in there somewhere, I always request the spec and quite simply its a contractors job to maximize their profits.Â
I get this with timber just as much, the spec calls for teak and the contractor would say “what looks like teak that’s cheaper” my answer is usually errrrr teak?Â
We could be discussing this at a Decking Expo, whats do you recon?
Alex Collins said:
Yes Karl – agree.
Had an interesting conversation with a project manager from a rather large house-builder recently, they were comparing Ecodek to cheaper brand. When I pointed out that the cheaper brand only had a 5yr warranty, whereas ours is 25 years FULL warranty commercial & residential, the guy’s answer was something along the lines of “we don’t care, 5 years is enough for us”. Â Â
Hmmm………..
I see where you are coming from and have to agree.
Top name and shame…. I would ask the lawyers about that, there are so many companies selling poor quality products, it a shame that the main purchaser being Landscaper and contractors and the fact that price is king when it comes to purchasing. Quality is a secondary feature and unless the clients are made aware then the contractor will supply the cheaper product.
If these new standards are promulgated in such a way the general public can easily identify with the problem would slowly disappear. Â
Bring on a Deck Expo… your thoughts?
Alex Collins said:
No Karl, not all. If they’re PVC composite then they are more likely to be ok as PVC has better tensile properties than hdpe or pp. However, that doesn’t mean all PVC composites will be ok. Â What we are seeing with the Far Eastern product is that it contains MIXED waste plastics, namely PP/HDPE/PET. Â Anyone in the plastics industry will tell you that its very difficult to homogenise PP or HDPE to PET. That’s why they are de-laminating, the polymers aren’t mixing and instead, forming separate layers in the product. If I had a balcony made from this stuff, I would be very worried indeed, as should be the distributors, they may well end up with blood on their hands. Â I am going to seek advice as to whether I can name & shame – I have the proof so I’m hoping (in the interest of public safety) I will be legally allowed. Â I dread to think how much is out there…………..One of the main DIY sheds has been selling it too……….
Crikey, 98p thats silly.
With respect to the hollow decking, is this all of them?
Standards, you know I love standards, will this then be part or included in the tables by TRADA to conform to EC5, now that would be great if so.
Time for a decking conference methinks…
No real regulations and they are so desperately needed.
No real understanding of how to construct the very many different  products on the market
Maintenance, who cares
Longevity, its ok we’ve been paid…
calculations, tables, construction techniques
correct tooling…
This is a massively ignored subject and much could be done about it…
Just having you write that is good enough for me… if you have to send anything…. anything would be appreciated.
Many thanks for using the Network
Karl
Assuming a 1.5kN load is required, C16 joists and rebated 100mm posts the following applies for a decking structure 5.5m x 3.5m
The beams are set out 1.375m spans (between posts) with the beams at 1.7m spans.
The joists are then sat on top of the beams at 400 centres.
The method of orientation will cost more, more posts, more labour. The reason for the dimensions, well this does apply the above principal of joist, and beam spans and as you need the additional components one may as well space them equidistant.
Each manufacturer has a different dimension clip and so the pre-routed groove has to be specific to each clip.
The gap is pre-determined by each clip… 7 is excessive for any clip.
Buy plastic, buy twice and I have not heard of the Artichoke clip, must be another new one.Â
Glad you are going to use Ipe. be wary of side fixing using plastic clips for obvious reasons, Ipe clip extreme and stainless clips are best.
Cupping will always happen but much less on narrower boards up to 100mm.
With respect to Ipe and its specific density, pretty much nothing will soak in to it, hence the oiling operation I advised earlier. You can certainly use the oil on the ends or a proprietary wax based product. In my experience the wax crumbles in the winter and peels away in the summer, especially when the moisture gets behind it.
Sounds very much like you want to the absolute best job there can be… good to see.
I would install your decking fully and then to the OWATROL routine.
Soak your deck in water then apply a neat coat of Prep-Deck, jet wash off after 30 minutes or so, this will remove the Mill Glaze and Open the pores of the timber, whilst wet then apply Net-Trol, this will neutralize the prepdeck and remove any water staining.
Allow to dry full, perhaps 2 days
The when applying our your quality decking oil, OWATROL D1 or D1 Pro, allow to fully soak in and don’t do what 99% of contractors do and thats wipe on and wipe off…. soak soak soak, the oil is best in the timber and not on the timber… when it stops absorbing the oil wipe off the residual in one single motion and move onto the next area…
Messing with the timber prior to installation will only lead to an unhappy chappy as you will scratch and mark the boards whilst cutting etc…
You don’t need to preserve Ipe… its bomb proof
Are you installing smooth ipe boards with predrilled and countersunk holes with stainless screws or are you using a side fixed system?
Yes, I joined this year Robert and have had a great response.
I engage the APL website, speak to many other members and also gain exposure to projects by networking with them. I guess you may have had one or two minor hiccups but I am more than certain that once you start speaking to others at the Regional cluster meetings you’ll find what real benefits you may receive. To be honest I have received my welcome pack and they’ll suck their teeth to read that I haven’t really looked at it yet.
I do get referral links from both the APL and also the Trustmark website, indecently you also get links (decking installer page)Â from this website and also DMOZ…
Perhaps you may want to come to a South Bucks or West London meeting?
