[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

Hi Steve

I agree that the replies on this post will be very few but the private emails are off the chart… As with this network the behind the scenes are 10 fold of that actually seen on the screen.

Decking manufacturers are behind us and the support is good.

Many thanks

Karl

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

Great reply Roque,

I am working on data sheets that will appear on this site under the menu heading “Decking Advice”, I would be greatful if you could mail me details for Itauba, I can then add to my list.

I do agree that hardness should not be the only consideration, we have to consider stability and durability. If and when using some of the species that are more volatile in terms of stability then more substantial fixings should be considered.

Karl

 

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

Hi Mark

I would recommend that you speak to Thomas Rathbone, he is our resident deck finishing expert endorsed by Owatrol.

https://deckingnetwork.com/members/thomas-rathbone/

We also have several clients that require their decking to look like new for most (all) of the time. We see them more than once a year.

cheers

Karl

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

Hi David,

Is this product available in the UK? I would amend the delivery terms for purchasing, unless you will deliver to the UK for free…

cheers

Karl 

 

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

Great stuff, perhaps I can create a page for the site users to showcase their decking designs, what do you recon?

In any case a decking guide for your clients can be found here https://deckingnetwork.com/decking-advice/how-much-should-i-be-paying

I also have spreadsheets that can assist in the calculations; although basic provide a sound cost analysis for your projects.

cheers

Karl

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

I also recommend Google SketchUp, there are no real limits to this simple software, I say simple but you can create the most stunning photo realistic renders. From basic line drawings to scale or apply a measurement on screen to enable the printed version to have dimensions.

The plugins available allow you to create pretty much anything and can provide a perfect presentation tool when chasing projects.

I quite often find this useful when there is only 2d, plan and side elevation drawings for your liftoff and so with a quick sketch all can become apparent quite quickly…..all in iso and perpective of course. You can even export in most CAD formats DWF and the like.

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

Great that you have a project to get stuck into, If you consider the cost of Ipe and an approxinate cost of £12k-£14K plus vat for the whole project; to then reduce the sq m cost of Hardwood deck by even £10 per sq m would only save you £600.

First Grade S4S/E4E KD Random Length Ipe currently (Jan 2012) is between £60 and £80 plus vat per sq m

To answer your question you could consider Massaranduba at Approx £52 per sq m or even Kurupay at approx £55 (harder than Ipe) or even Merbau (approx £72)

Do let you client know that they will all go silver eventually… or ask Thomas Rathbone to provide a quality Maintenance service to keep the colour. 

I did write a blog about what decks cost here https://deckingnetwork.com/decking-advice/how-much-should-i-be-paying

Hope this helps

Karl

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

Roque

OK so it is clear that you will support your natural products over the “Generically called” Composite.

If you insist on persuing this generalisation be aware – in simple terms you can’t. It’s like saying all timber has knots in it, all metal goes rusty and a grizzly bear never takes a dump in the woods! – when it clearly these statements are wrong.

If you have a particular manufacturer of a product that is offering a warrenty and you are suggesting that this individual manufacturer is falling short, by all means, show your evidence and be specific about one product and stop generalising.

I am sure that any worthy manufacturer will prove to the contrary.

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

This is great news John, I am sure many are looking forward to seeing the images of the finished project.

🙂

John Roberts said:

Planning was granted just before the new year so we have resumed play and already the decking is nearly completed.

When completed we will put some pictures of the decking on the web site for all to see, however it will take some time for the green walls to mature.

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

You wont get a firmer believer than me with regard to your statement “cheap stuff ends up expensive” thats why I created this network to show others that a correctly constructed deck designed and installed by a professional will represent good value for money.

 

I am sure you will fit right in….enjoy

 

Karl

Roque Valente said:

hello, discussions are not to make people upset but to set forward believes and especially pro’s and cons. The forum (as I see it) is like the parliament where different viewpoints are given and people then make up their own mind. I am well aware that per labour costs (at least in Belgium/ Germany etc) is around 50 euro/m2, it doesn’t really matter whether it be ipe deck or composite deck. What does matter is that once installed, the maintenance needs to be minimized because of these same costs. That is why eventually cheap stuff ends up expensive.

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

I do agree with your comments especially the narrow boards are more adapt in reducing cupping issues. We need designers and architects to appreciate this and stop specifying wide boards like 200mm at 21mm thickness, whilst the installation might look good for about two minutes just before it rains and the boards jump up and run away all by them selves…

 

It is usual for someone that specifies the thicker timbers either 28mm or 35mm to specify a hardwood substructure.

Roque Valente said:

Correct, from the initial posting I did not know it was for heavy pedestrian use. We are mainly an exporting company but sometimes arquitects or contractors contact us directly with almost impossible orders. We just sell a few widths (90/95/120/140 and 145mm wide x 19/20/21mm thich and random lengths) while these arquitects or contractors require specific quantity of boards of a certain width and even specified lengths!

Orders like this will reduce output (#boards produced per log) will reduce significantly and sometimes this doubles the price. It is true howver that the quantity of substructure will be reduced, however, substructure is a fraction of the total price so this is not quite the argument that would justify the request for 35mm thick. Also labour is more affected by the lengths of the boards (more boards to install per m2) then by the thick of the boards. Anyhow, heavy pedestrian use would justify, or just a client with a big wallet who doesn’t care.

So if you need good quality for ordinary use, just order random lengths, standard thick and in respect of wrapping and cupping do consider narrower widths! cheaper and safer.

 

 

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

Oh dear Roque

I do feel that you have got the wrong idea about this Network. It is a Timber and Composite Decking Network and not “the world must bow down to Roque and his superior knowledge”

Your images do nothing to corroberate any testimony to back up your argument, two of the images look like a pile of what could be anything and the other does look like the rotten substructure could just as well be to blame and also shows the age of the structure.

 

Whilst I agree some products are better than others; this site is not for you to showcase your products in high regard by being derrogatory to other products. 

If you have had an issue with a manufacturer then by all means show the product and explain why you think that it has failed, thus leaving reasonable room for a reply in order to either agree or justifyably disagree.

Whilst I also agree that Ipe is probably one of the most stable and durable it does have a down side, it goes grey over time and needs maintenance, thus without a great deal of maintenance will not look at good as it did when installed. To the same note I also refute your argument about “All” composite decking is not a good Idea; when in absolute fact in some cases and some products it is specified over timber by knowledgeable Architects, Designers, installers more so than timber

By all means argue the facts but do be specific and demonstrate your eveidence for an equal and honest debate.

With reference to your assumptions on costings, I would really like to see an exact comparrison, you quote $1.90 per linear foot – in the UK we would compare cost by either referring to linear metres or square metres. The cost of Ipe in the UK is always going to be more than that of the Americas – transportation, logistics, profit, company overheads make for a comparrison of $1.90 = £1.23 per foot or per linear metre £4.02 compare to the UK at about £8.00 plus vat and delivery.

The labour is at least £150 to over £200 so to convert to $232 to $310 so again I don’t think you could really compare in a reasonable debate that your perception of composite to Ipe is cheaper, It may be for you but for the UK market it is a different story.

Composite has moved on in recent years, there are still rogue companies out there but for the most there are standards that many companies up hold. The techniques have vastly improved and there are far more manufacturers than you could ever think of...I bet you have never heard of Millboard…

The debate is far from over and we won’t solve the differences in a few words, may over the next 25 years or so perhaps…

I do hope you haven’t upset too many people…

Karl

 

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

Hi Roque

I agree that the cost is crazy, however we only supply what Architects and Designers specify.

The difference is usually for heavy traffic pedestrian use or commercial applications. The benefits being the thicker the timber decking the wider the Joist and deck span.

Sometimes cost is not the most important factor, with a hardwood substructure and a thicker product the longevity is increase by a substantial amount; the labour ,however, doesn’t increase by much 

Roque Valente said:

hello,

1) yes, we are such a supplier (ipe decking only), I need to say that decking other then 19/20 or 21mm is always MUCH more expensive

2) why the difference in thick? I have no idea since 20m is more then enough especially if it is hardwood decking, but some need special superdeck for some misterious reason.

So if you are in need of a large quantity (10,000sqft / 1000m2) do not hesitate to contact us for a very competitive quotation! http://www.roquevalente.com

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

Great news Dan,

When you say flat out, what do you mean, are these commercial decking installation projects?

[Karl Harrison Landscapes Ltd]

Great news Alex

 

Do keep us updated with any contracts that you have won or if you want to update us with the installers of your product that you recommend. I have started a Group for your installers and they can then promote themselves there.

 

cheers

Karl

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